For Discussion: Are we helping ourselves out of a job?

8330 pts.
Tags:
competition
job security
Outsourcing
salary
Given the nature of companies to hire the least expensive workers, and that those workers may have little to no experience; should we be answering questions on how to do "X" and providing working code?

Are we allowing the non-experienced worker to get the job done, so that there is no incentive for the companies to hire more experienced workers (at higher salaries)?

While I am all for helping out and sharing the knowledge (I wouldn't be the programmer I am without being able to learn and combine tricks from others), are we actually hurting ourselves by limiting the salaries we can earn by doing so?  



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To me the bottom line answer is YES,

I moved from Iowa to Atlanta in 2005. The company I worked for in Atlanta hired 150 contractors. About half of them were individuals over here on work visas, mostly from India. Within 4 years, they setup a shop in India and outsourced almost all of the AS400 coding and eventually most of the support. few of the local contractors kept their jobs.
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I came back to Iowa and found out one of the companies that I worked for previously is having nearly all of the new development and code mondications done off shore.

I do agree with BigCat that without the mentoring I have received over the years, I would not be at the level I am at currently without it. I am very thankful for that. The difference between what we received and what we are doing is significant. My mentoring was personal. Done with someone sitting at my side and teaching me. It was a hands on experience. Now we are answering questions where many times we do not really understand what or why someone is asking them. Most times we never receive a response that a proposed solution worked. So we keep suppling more answers.

Stepping off my soap box. :-)

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  • wpoulin
    I guess I am going to have to agree with you guys especially with the volume of questions that keep coming from individuals that seem to barely be able to communicate in English !! Just my opinion !! Bill Poulin
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  • BigKat
    I LOVE the questions that show the asker has really tried, and is still stuck on something and needs some help. (Even if they are homework questions. If the tried, I don't mind helping :) ) I HATE the questions like "need to do ... send working code". :(
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  • wpoulin
    CharlieBrown's comment about companies outsourcing hit home to me. Here in state government we keep having layoffs, but then turn around and hire consultants. New technology still needs to be implemented, but from a budget perspective the expense just comes out of a different account. Agreed you do not incur the expense of benefits when you hire a consultant, but who ends up supporting the technology when the consultant leaves. Just my 2 cents ! Bill Poulin
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  • CharlieBrowne
    I so agree with BigCat last addition. There should be a 'For a Fee" site they can go to if they want working code and they have not tried anything at all. And some questions are so obscure that I really want to know why they are asking the question. There should be a check off box that is required. IT would be "I have done a GOOGLE search and have search this website" Yes/No Oops, I just got back on my soap box.
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  • philpl1jb
    We're absolute fools, as individually and as a group. Sheep have better preservation instincts! Phil
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  • TechTalker
    I agree strongly with the theme of this discussion. I am a relative newbie to the IT Knowledge Exchange community and agree that helping others by pointing them in the right direction without doing their job for them is good and that those who help others are reinforcing and expanding their knowledge in the process. Those of us who are seasoned IT professionals learned by doing, and those coming up in ranks need to do the same with a little guidance, assistance, and mentoring which is exactly where IT Knowledge Exchange comes in. For all those participating in IT Knowledge Exchange by answering questions and joining discussions, I say keep up the good work because your efforts are appreciated.
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  • philpl1jb
    Companies took away our jobs and moved them overseas. We were loyal to the end and helped them move the jobs. Now the jobs are overseas and we help the new workers for free, basically rewarding our previous employers for bad behavior. What we should have done. When the first company talked about moving the first job, all the IT professionals, all the engineers, all the accountants, all the future outsoursees should have stood up, walked out of the building, driven away and gotten other jobs when they were plentiful. When the first employer got creamed because of outsourcing, it would have put the fear of failure in the hearts of the decision makers. Will the first person in line please fix the guillotine so we can get on with it. Phil
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  • labtechguru
    The companies are always going to try for cheaper resources. I have always responded by finding something new to learn in response. This way I stay ahead of being outsourced. It's the way of the world!
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  • philpl1jb
    From: http://www.labor.ny.gov/stats/PDFs/Offshore_Outsourcing_ITJobs_NYS.pdf "A 2006 report from the Government Accountability Office found that “in the 2000s, firms further expanded their offshoring operations, based on the lowcost and high-quality work from the off-shored services undertaken in the late 1990s.” Does this board provide knowledge that enhances the image of "high-quality" of off-shore workers? Phil
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  • philpl1jb
    I suspose we upset pretty,prettyshina74@yahoo.com
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  • TomLiotta
    I suspose we upset pretty,prettyshina74@yahoo.com I would say "Somebody left their web-cam on", but that would be low. So I won't. :-) Tom
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  • philpl1jb
    pretty,pretty, I knew that name was familiar! Nicely Nicely Johnson: Nicely, nicely. Sky Masterson: I didn't ask how you are. Nicely Nicely Johnson: Don't. Harry the Horse: I just acquired five thousand fish. Nicely Nicely Johnson: Five thousand? If it can be told, where did you take on this fine bundle of lettuce? Harry the Horse: I have nothing to hide. I collected the reward on my father. Benny Southstreet: It is an advantage to have a successful father. Nobody ever wanted my old man for as much as five hundred.
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  • BigKat
    If it wasn't so annoying, it would be impressive how creative the Spam-Bots are getting. Only a couple of syntax errors that COULD also have been made by a real person who was a non-native English speaker. If we could just channel all of that skill into "good" coding!
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  • CharlieBrowne
    Since there seems to be agreement on this subject, I suggest we take action. We cann't stop the questions from comming, but we do have control over the responses. I suggest we as a group use the same type of response. something like "Please let us know what steps you have taked to get your anser to this question. If you are stuck on something technically, please give us all the details behind your question." THis way we do not waste our time and and not 3rd world teacher puttine ourselves out of a job.
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  • BigKat
    and that pretty,prettyshina74@yahoo.com is quite the flirt, she must have posted to 30 different question askers LOL
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  • BigKat
    at least in my Daily Question and Answer Update for Feb 7, 2012 she seemed to have posted to them all :)
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  • philpl1jb
    I think she likes you BigKat
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  • CharlieBrowne
    Not only are we losing jobs, I think we are losing control of this site. In 2 days, pretty,prettyshina74@yahoo.com has earned 1330 and has a Bronze badge. None of use "Experts" have been able to do that. LOL
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  • carlosdl
    "Since there seems to be agreement on this subject, I suggest we take action. We cann’t stop the questions from comming, but we do have control over the responses. I suggest we as a group use the same type of response. something like “Please let us know what steps you have taked to get your answer to this question..." I agree, but that is the way we should have been answering questions from the beginning. Many of us do it that way. Anyway, I'm happy that this discussion took place. Better late than never, right ? Unfortunately, there are incentives for members answering and/or discussing questions indiscriminately (points, badges, contests).
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  • philpl1jb
    losing control ! I've got teenagers.
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  • philpl1jb
    We appreciate people who are working hard and we intend to help them resolve their problems. Please show respect for our time and effort. Let us know what steps you have taken to resolve this issue and we will try to guide you to a resolution. The IT Knowledge Exchange Members
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  • carlosdl
    We appreciate people who are working hard and we intend to help them resolve their problems. Please show respect for our time and effort. Let us know what steps you have taken to resolve this issue and we will try to guide you to a resolution. But no, we won't do your [home]work for you. The IT Knowledge Exchange Members
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  • philpl1jb
    Second response We have no doubt that you are “new to this topic” So, as we promissed, we will give you guidence. Go to the top of this page to the Seach Window and type ===== or ===== ==== also go to google and type AS/400 ======, You will find that this question has been answered many times. The IT Knowledge Exchange Members
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  • BigKat
    I wouldn't even mind homework problems if they come here and are I have tried x, y, and z, but something is still not right; can you point me in the right direction. Then we could say try looking up w, :)
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  • BigKat
    [...] 6. BigKat, CharlieBrown, Wpoulin, and TechTalker discuss if helping others is kicking them out of a job? [...]
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  • BigKat
    [...] 2. BigKat, CharlieBrown, Philpl1jb, and Carlosdl debate if they’re helping themselves out of a job. [...]
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