Mnman66   230 pts.  |   Mar 24 2009  7:06PM GMT

Don’t appologize for doing your job. The person that should be appologizing is the boss with the lack of knowledge in business. If you put together a good presentation on Microsoft, he’ll see the ROI is much better than trying to cut corners and coming up with a half baked solution.
Next, you don’t need a big server to run Windows 2003. You may also want to take a look at Terminal Server licensing, and having remote users from each location log in with that. Virtual Server for that matter might work as well. You could have your own private network within VS.

Djeepp   340 pts.  |   Mar 24 2009  7:11PM GMT

You mention that you started looking at an open source solution but don’t have the knowledge to go any further. As a Linux admin, I would highly encourage you to go open source. Not only is it going to be cheaper in both the short and long term, but you are left with many, many more options than going with a Windows solution. The learning curve is a little steep, but it would be worth it.

SBIT   40 pts.  |   Mar 24 2009  11:13PM GMT

Well it has come to my attention I can drop the server specs I have lined up by a little considering I have quoted the specs listed below. I see I can drop the Processor down to a Dual Core 3.0 and decrease the RAM to about 2 or 3 GB, but that is not going to save much in the over all price of things.

I would love to know which Linux/Unix distro’s have the potential to offer all the capabilities I am looking for. I was looking at Mantria since it has a Directory Server and Pulse 2 for workstation management, however as stated the learning curve is steep and there looks to be little help documentation for that particular product. I have a quote being made for Novell at this point in time, however I am still open to any suggestions for alternative operating systems or Linux/Unix distro’s that are comperable to Server 2003/2008.

————————-
All Prices are in Canadian Dollar(CAD)
Product Qty Your Price Total

HP ProLiant ML350 G5 - Server - tower - 5U - 2-way - 1 x Quad-Core Xeon E5430 / 2.66 GHz - RAM 2 GB - SAS - hot-swap 3.5″ - no HDD - DVD¦RW - ATI ES1000 - Gigabit Ethernet - Monitor : none - Smart Buy
HP - Servers - Part#: 470064-870 $1,955.50

HP - Memory - 4 GB ( 2 x 2 GB ) - FB-DIMM 240-pin - DDR2 - 667 MHz / PC2-5300 - fully buffered - ECC - Smart Buy
HP - General - Part#: 397413-S21 $209.20

HP Midline - Hard drive - 500 GB x2- hot-swap - 3.5″ - SATA-300 - 7200 rpm
HP - Storage - Part#: 458928-B21 $747.74

Electronic HP Care Pack 4-Hour 24×7 Same Day Hardware Support - Extended service agreement - parts and labor - 3 years - on-site - 24×7 - 4 h - Smart Buy
HP - Computer Support - Part#: UE902E $565.60

Microsoft Windows Server 2008 Standard - License - 1 server - OEM - ROK - English
Lenovo - Software - Part#: 54Y6100 $764.96

APC Smart-UPS RM 1500VA USB & Serial - UPS ( rack-mountable ) - AC 120 V - 980 Watt - 1440 VA - 6 output connector(s) - 2U
APC - Data Centers & Server Rooms - Part#: SUA1500RM2U $793.24

Microsoft Windows Server 2008 - License - 1 user CAL x100- Open Business - Single Language
Microsoft Open License Business - Part#: R18-02709 $3,369.00

Subtotal$8,405.24
Total$8,405.24
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mrdenny   46795 pts.  |   Mar 25 2009  4:37AM GMT

Frighteningly that’s not that bad of a price for a single server order.

Personally I love HP servers, but they are some of the most expensive out there. You might want to look at a Dell server.

As an example I put together a single CPU quad core server with 4 Gigs of RAM, 2 500 Gig hard drives in a tower with Windows Server 2008 standard with 25 CALs (you’ll still need to add another 75 CALs) for $4800 US. You can usually get another 10-20% just by calling them up on the phone.

If open source will work for you, then that may be the way to go. But I’d work with your boss and your vendor to justify the ROI to your boss. Your vendor should be able to send someone out to speak with him and go over the numbers so that he can see what costs what, and what the ROI is. If your vendor can’t do that, find another vendor. Just let them know what the issues your boss has with the numbers are, and they can help you work through those issues.

SBIT   40 pts.  |   Mar 25 2009  5:57PM GMT

Actually I have three quotes as stated above and the highest one is from Dell. Almost the exact same specs but $9200 in price after Windows Licensing, it was the Dell quote I supplied to the vendor of the quote above to match and beat, which they did as far as I am concerned. I guess i either get to do some convincing or look at a cheaper/FOSS operating system.

If there are still any suggestions in the Linux/Unix category please let me know, I am willing to tackle the learning curve if for nothing else then the experience itself.

Thanks

Carlosdl   29820 pts.  |   Mar 25 2009  10:40PM GMT

Although Linux could be a good option, take into consideration other costs it might represent in the future. For example, how much money it could cost to your organization if a severe incident arise and you or your team don’t have the necessary knowledge/experience to solve it quickly. I think it could be a little easier to find support/help for Windows, and in some cases it could be even cheaper.

MacsPC   235 pts.  |   Mar 26 2009  2:01AM GMT

Hi - Have you thought of going down the Second Hand / ReCon market road ?

When you think of how many companies around you are going to the wall - they weren’t running on ZX81s :o) - showing my age :o)

There’s bound to be some serious level kit out there just wating to be purchased. One company I visited as a FieldEngineer ONLY EVER BUYS SECOND HAND Hardware. Many of the big corp’s like to stay ahead of the game - replacing kit just for the sake of replacing it - either for rental / insurance reasons OR because they always need to be faster - or even just to show off BUT the point is - if the hardware was running 100% when they powered it down & you have it inspected - you could be on to a real winner.

Just because something is pre-used doesn’t mean you’re “buying someone elses problems” - you COULD end up with a better spec for half the cost - meaning you get to stick to Windows Server & you still rock as far as the boss is concerned !

Replacing any Hard-Drives you are concerned about - should also be cheap enough these days BUT with a thorogh low level scrub - I doubt you’d even need to go that far !!!

It’s just an idea - I’ve bought second hand in the past & I’ll hapilly buy again. IF you buy from a reputable seller - they will want to keep their reputation intact so they won’t let you be dissappointed.

I hope I’ve given you a new angle to concider. Your boss could have the setupof his dreams without the VISA CARD Nightmares :o)

- M!ke -
( Macs PC )

MacsPC   235 pts.  |   Mar 26 2009  2:20AM GMT

When you think seriously about it - surely buying a used server is less of a risk than buying a used office desk PC.

The server PC is usually kept in an Air Temp.Controlled room with plenty of surrounding space to vent & breathe. Often in a secure - locked rack mounting cage. Only ever being handled by people who know what they are doing & understand just how valuable the kit really is ( at least I would hope so ) !!!

A company of the size you are looking to equip would appreciate that if they DIDN’T LOOK AFTER THEIR KIT - IT WOULDN’T LOOK AFTER THEM !How happy would an MD be with 100+ employees sitting a dead workstations because the server went down regularly due to poor handling / maintenance. That would make NO SENSE what-so-ever !

. . . Well it’s something to think about anyway

Also you don’t need to learn an entire new platform & was meantioned previously - help & advice for Win Server IS ALWAYS AVAILABLE !!!

Cheers for now

:o)

[B]- M!ke -
( Macs PC )

Robert Stewart   1810 pts.  |   Mar 26 2009  4:33PM GMT

Just a word of caution 100-125 roaming profiles will require some storage space your probably not counting on. Roaming profiles eat up space and occasionally hurt throughput. Just wanted to bring this to your attention if your not already familiar with them.

I also agree your boss has just not seen the ROI the same as you, in today’s economy ROI is everything let him realize he could be making a big mistake and that if he is willing to upgrade now in this economy it would be foolish to be pennywise and pound short. Good luck

mrdenny   46795 pts.  |   Mar 26 2009  5:29PM GMT

I think that MacsPC brings up an excellent point which is definitely worth exploring. Buying the hardware second hard or repossessed could get you some nice equipment at a very low cost.

Talk to a couple of lending companies in the area and see if they are repod any servers, and if so who they use to sell them. You could probably get some good equipment and a good price this way.

Robert Stewart also brings up a good point, moving roaming profiles across the WAN links between the offices is going to be very slow, unless you have a very high speed connection. Long term you may want to consider putting a file server at each office so that you don’t have to move the profiles over the WAN.

KevinBeaver   7610 pts.  |   Mar 27 2009  7:44PM GMT

Part of the problem with IT/security budgets is that people automatically assume they need to buy everything new. Definitely look at going the used route…could save you 50% or more and as long as the hardware works once you reload the system, they’ll run like new. Just have a backup plan in the event hardware such as drives and power supplies fail…they will eventually.

Ivessm   10 pts.  |   Mar 27 2009  10:47PM GMT

With your dealerships being at the end of VPN’s they better be BIG pipes if you are planning on using roaming profiles. Your users are going to get pissed at waiting a long time for their login to complete and even longer when they are at the end of a VPN.

If you do profiles then I would scrap the roaming profiles and do all remote connections with Remote Desktop Protocol RDP. This would require additional licensing from Microsoft for Terminal Server Client.

If you want to look at a Linux solution look at <a href="http://CENTOS.org" title="http://CENTOS. " target="_blank">CENTOS.org</a> It might be worth looking into it.

Good luck.

stew

Robert Stewart   1810 pts.  |   Mar 30 2009  3:11PM GMT

What are the tax implications as far as writing off used equipement?? I would have those answered by the dealerships accounting team. They may force your manager to buy new, it could be difficult with used equipment, I’m not positive on this but I would check it out. The answer could help prove your initial ROI claims that new would be better if at all possible, and again I would reconsider roaming profiles.

SBIT   40 pts.  |   Apr 1 2009  5:54PM GMT

Thank you all for your input thus far on this issue. I will look into all your suggestions.

I was wondering is there any way to transfer emails in outlook express/outlook so they load on each computer a user logs into without roaming profiles. Documents I know you can do a shared mapped drive and set a login script to map the network users documents folder from the server, however it is the email that I am concerned about. There will be very few users that will actualy take advantage of the roaming profile setup since most have a single computer they work from and don’t move, but the few that do move around will require thier outlook express/outlook emails to show no matter which computer they move to. If there is a way to do that without roaming profiles I would love to hear it.

Thanks for you help so far people. I knew I would get some answers here.

mrdenny   46795 pts.  |   Apr 2 2009  7:09PM GMT

The easiest way would be to use a mail server that keeps an the emails on the server. Exchange is an option, but costs a lot. There are several free imap mail servers out there which can do this. Your current mail provider may offer imap as an option already.

With imap you download the message headers but leave the actual email on the server. This way it is available to every machine you log into.