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	<title>Comments on: Thirty years of Oracle innovation &#8212; but is it really a RDBMS?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/eye-on-oracle/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/eye-on-oracle/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/</link>
	<description>A SearchOracle.com blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 12:22:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Salsa</title>
		<link>http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/eye-on-oracle/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-990</link>
		<dc:creator>Salsa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonoracle.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/05/21/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-990</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Guess rule 3 is violated by Oracle, for example:

The concept of NULL - as value for &quot;Empty&quot;, or &quot;Missing&quot; - is violated for e.g. VARCHAR2 as the empty string &#039;&#039; is equivalent to NULL.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guess rule 3 is violated by Oracle, for example:</p>
<p>The concept of NULL &#8211; as value for &#8220;Empty&#8221;, or &#8220;Missing&#8221; &#8211; is violated for e.g. VARCHAR2 as the empty string &#8221; is equivalent to NULL.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Arbitrary</title>
		<link>http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/eye-on-oracle/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-989</link>
		<dc:creator>Arbitrary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonoracle.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/05/21/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-989</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To Jerry Finkenkeller:

The open source world is full of people who would rather be right than rich.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Jerry Finkenkeller:</p>
<p>The open source world is full of people who would rather be right than rich.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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		<title>By: Naveen</title>
		<link>http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/eye-on-oracle/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-988</link>
		<dc:creator>Naveen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 02:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonoracle.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/05/21/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-988</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All academicians and db experts. 
I have a silly question ..
Which of codd&#039;s 12 rules, ORACLE does not satisfy .. ? 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codd&#039;s_twelve_rules]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All academicians and db experts.<br />
I have a silly question ..<br />
Which of codd&#8217;s 12 rules, ORACLE does not satisfy .. ?<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codd&#039;s_twelve_rules" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codd&#039;s_twelve_rules</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Lynch</title>
		<link>http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/eye-on-oracle/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-987</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Lynch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonoracle.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/05/21/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-987</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This has been quite an educational track. Thanks for everyone&#039;s input. While the subject, it apparently turns out, is, like Paris Hilton&#039;s situation, mostly of little relevance, it is philosophically and historically quite fascinating, and educational from a larger perspective.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has been quite an educational track. Thanks for everyone&#8217;s input. While the subject, it apparently turns out, is, like Paris Hilton&#8217;s situation, mostly of little relevance, it is philosophically and historically quite fascinating, and educational from a larger perspective.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tim DiChiara</title>
		<link>http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/eye-on-oracle/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-986</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim DiChiara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonoracle.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/05/21/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-986</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Superb post, Theo. Thanks for your comments.

--Tim]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Superb post, Theo. Thanks for your comments.</p>
<p>&#8211;Tim</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Theo Gantos, CCP</title>
		<link>http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/eye-on-oracle/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-985</link>
		<dc:creator>Theo Gantos, CCP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 22:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonoracle.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/05/21/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-985</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oracle, being a large successful company, obviously is at the same time praised and vilified, but that has no bearing on the actual discussion. It is good that this forum is not edited {censored}, but also bad, since clearly there are several off-topic rants of low informational content and unsupported reasoning.

1) As to the question of Codd&#039;s Rules as a test, according to Pascal in Aug of 2005, &quot;I would not pay too much attention to Codd&#039;s rules at this point, they have been deprecated. Codd formulated them as a quick and dirty way to counter all the nonsense that was floating at that early time, they are not orthogonal or systematic, and our understanding of RM has progressed considerably since then.&quot; I would say that Chris Date, Hugh Darwen, or Fabian Pascal would probably be the best authority on what constitutes the current snapshot of what we might refer to as the &quot;Relational Data Model Body Of Knowledge&quot;. Having been a working practitioner at the time, I recall Codd&#039;s initial Rules being in response to several &#039;bandwagon&#039; attempts to claim that a DBMS was &quot;Relational&quot; just by slapping a &quot;New &amp; Improved&quot;, &quot;Now Relational!&quot; sticker on it. Surveying the publications of the ACM SIGMOD group are not much help either, many of these academicians are working in ontologies and other XML-based semantic definitions of representing information, and not concerned per-se with the question of &quot;What makes an RDBMS Relational?&quot;

2) Issues about SQL to Oracle orthagonality - Any advanced SQL practitioner or DBA will most likely agree with the statement that &quot;SQL has some serious inherent flaws&quot;, part of being a skilled practitioner is knowing how to work around them. Creating non-relational &quot;hacks&quot; and &quot;workarounds&quot; like RowID and RowNum are not helping to counter the argument that SQL is not the be-all utopian Relational Data Management tool. But why MUST it be so? Certainly borrowing from other analogues, a mechanic employs a range of tools and trys to match the correct tool to the problem rather than attempting to use one for everything.

3) Regarding the &#039;Oracle is an SQL DBMS not an RDBMS&#039; argument - Turning to the claimed &quot;over-coupling&quot; of Oracle&#039;s Flagship RDBMS product line to SQL, this is a bit difficult to argue against, because in fact the critics are right. Here&#039;s the fallacy, there is no need to tie such a fine product line to a rock [SQL problems], marrying it so unconditionally to SQL, and then have to constantly contend with the flaws and awkwardness of SQL through non-standard extensions, which produce a chorus of catcalls from the purists arguing to simply fix the standard. Certainly there is nothing stopping the Oracle product line from supporting ADDITIONAL (especially Non-SQL) native APIs, such as a direct link to a relational algebra notation. 

Or here&#039;s a completely outrageous idea on the face of it, Why not start a project to implement &quot;D&quot; as an API, the &quot;much-heralded order of magnitude&quot; improvement in technology over SQL. Date and his associates might be engaged to consult on constructing such an extension, and this could serve as a put-up-or-shut-up proposition.

In summary: Arguing whether Oracle is an RDBMS or simply an SQL-DBMS is perhaps more a matter more of perception than of reality, and any such negative perceptions are entirely within Oracle&#039;s ability to resolve, should they desire it. &quot;We have met the enemy, and he is us.&quot; - Pogo]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oracle, being a large successful company, obviously is at the same time praised and vilified, but that has no bearing on the actual discussion. It is good that this forum is not edited {censored}, but also bad, since clearly there are several off-topic rants of low informational content and unsupported reasoning.</p>
<p>1) As to the question of Codd&#8217;s Rules as a test, according to Pascal in Aug of 2005, &#8220;I would not pay too much attention to Codd&#8217;s rules at this point, they have been deprecated. Codd formulated them as a quick and dirty way to counter all the nonsense that was floating at that early time, they are not orthogonal or systematic, and our understanding of RM has progressed considerably since then.&#8221; I would say that Chris Date, Hugh Darwen, or Fabian Pascal would probably be the best authority on what constitutes the current snapshot of what we might refer to as the &#8220;Relational Data Model Body Of Knowledge&#8221;. Having been a working practitioner at the time, I recall Codd&#8217;s initial Rules being in response to several &#8216;bandwagon&#8217; attempts to claim that a DBMS was &#8220;Relational&#8221; just by slapping a &#8220;New &amp; Improved&#8221;, &#8220;Now Relational!&#8221; sticker on it. Surveying the publications of the ACM SIGMOD group are not much help either, many of these academicians are working in ontologies and other XML-based semantic definitions of representing information, and not concerned per-se with the question of &#8220;What makes an RDBMS Relational?&#8221;</p>
<p>2) Issues about SQL to Oracle orthagonality &#8211; Any advanced SQL practitioner or DBA will most likely agree with the statement that &#8220;SQL has some serious inherent flaws&#8221;, part of being a skilled practitioner is knowing how to work around them. Creating non-relational &#8220;hacks&#8221; and &#8220;workarounds&#8221; like RowID and RowNum are not helping to counter the argument that SQL is not the be-all utopian Relational Data Management tool. But why MUST it be so? Certainly borrowing from other analogues, a mechanic employs a range of tools and trys to match the correct tool to the problem rather than attempting to use one for everything.</p>
<p>3) Regarding the &#8216;Oracle is an SQL DBMS not an RDBMS&#8217; argument &#8211; Turning to the claimed &#8220;over-coupling&#8221; of Oracle&#8217;s Flagship RDBMS product line to SQL, this is a bit difficult to argue against, because in fact the critics are right. Here&#8217;s the fallacy, there is no need to tie such a fine product line to a rock [SQL problems], marrying it so unconditionally to SQL, and then have to constantly contend with the flaws and awkwardness of SQL through non-standard extensions, which produce a chorus of catcalls from the purists arguing to simply fix the standard. Certainly there is nothing stopping the Oracle product line from supporting ADDITIONAL (especially Non-SQL) native APIs, such as a direct link to a relational algebra notation. </p>
<p>Or here&#8217;s a completely outrageous idea on the face of it, Why not start a project to implement &#8220;D&#8221; as an API, the &#8220;much-heralded order of magnitude&#8221; improvement in technology over SQL. Date and his associates might be engaged to consult on constructing such an extension, and this could serve as a put-up-or-shut-up proposition.</p>
<p>In summary: Arguing whether Oracle is an RDBMS or simply an SQL-DBMS is perhaps more a matter more of perception than of reality, and any such negative perceptions are entirely within Oracle&#8217;s ability to resolve, should they desire it. &#8220;We have met the enemy, and he is us.&#8221; &#8211; Pogo</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/eye-on-oracle/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-983</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 09:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonoracle.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/05/21/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-983</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark, that&#039;s an odd argument. Normalization is merely a relational database design discipline, it doesn&#039;t make a DBMS relational. The relational model is a pre-requisite for normalization to take place, it is not the PRODUCT of normalization rules.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, that&#8217;s an odd argument. Normalization is merely a relational database design discipline, it doesn&#8217;t make a DBMS relational. The relational model is a pre-requisite for normalization to take place, it is not the PRODUCT of normalization rules.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Jacobs</title>
		<link>http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/eye-on-oracle/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-982</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Jacobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 19:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonoracle.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/05/21/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-982</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is not very complicated in my opinion:
Can a fully normalized database be constructed in Oracle? 
Are the set operators functional?
The answer, of course, is yes to both.  It is an RDBMS.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is not very complicated in my opinion:<br />
Can a fully normalized database be constructed in Oracle?<br />
Are the set operators functional?<br />
The answer, of course, is yes to both.  It is an RDBMS.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/eye-on-oracle/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-981</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 16:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonoracle.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/05/21/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-981</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Shahid, assuming you meant that ironically, did you have a new definition in mind?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shahid, assuming you meant that ironically, did you have a new definition in mind?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Shahid</title>
		<link>http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/eye-on-oracle/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-980</link>
		<dc:creator>Shahid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 05:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonoracle.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/05/21/thirty-years-of-oracle-innovation-but-is-it-really-a-rdbms/#comment-980</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If Oracle is not an RDBMS then the definition of RDBMS needs to be redefined, and it must be what Oracle is offering.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Oracle is not an RDBMS then the definition of RDBMS needs to be redefined, and it must be what Oracle is offering.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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